Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Pesachim 63a - Shechting Korban Pesach With Chometz

The Rambam (Hil. Korban Pesach 1:5) writes that if one shechts, sprinkles the blood or burns the eimurin of a korban pesach while one of them has chometz or one of the chabura has chometz, all those playing an active role in the korban (שוחט, זורק ומקטיר) are in violation. The implication of the Rambam is that the members of the chabura, even the one who has chometz is not in violation since they are not doing any active part of being מקריב the korban. Tosafos writes that the one who has chometz is not in violation. However, Tosafos gives two explanations why the member of the chabura that has the chometz is not in violation: 1. The Torah says לא תשחט implying one who does an avodah. 2. It is a לאו שאין בו מעשה so there can't be malkus. The Minchas Chinuch (Mitzvah 89) points out that according to the first answer of Tosafos it seems that the בעל החמץ is not in violation of anything, whereas the second answer of Tosafos implies that he is in violation, just that he doesn't receive malkus for a la'av sh'ein bo ma'aseh. Rashi seems to disagree with both the Rambam and Tosafos. Rashi on the mishna writes that if one of them has chometz, they are ALL in violation, implying that not only is the בעל החמץ in violation, but all the passive members of the chabura are also in violation.
Another issue is whether the violation of this לאו invalidates the Korban Pesach. Tosafos writes that the Pesach is kasher since there is no repetition to indicate that the violation of this would cause passul the korban. The Rambam also writes that the korban is kasher [In the pirush hamishna he also writes - ולא יפסיד הזבח]. The kesef mishna points out that this is the implication of the mishna since it only says that you would violate a לא תעשה and doesn't mention the korban.
There is a Mishna L'melech that discusses whether the זורק or מקטיר would be in violation of a korban pesach that has already become passul. Is the violation of לא תשחט על חמץ only on a kasher korban pesach, or even on a passul one? The Mishna L'melech proves from a Yerushalmi that it would not apply to a passul korban pesach. In the Yerushalmi, R. Shmuel says that from the fact that the issur even applies to the zoreik, it must be that the pesach is kasher. Meaning, if the korban pesach that is shechted while one has chometz is passul, the korban would have already become passul by the shechita so that the zoreik would not be in violation. The fact that the zoreik can also be in violation implies that the korban is not invalidated by being shechted with someone having chometz. The entire approach of R. Shmuel in the Yerushalmi assumes that on a passul korban pesach one cannot be in violation of this prohibition.
The Tzlach suggests a similar lomdus to the mishna l'melech in his understanding of Rashi, from which he tries to prove that the korban would be invalidated by being shechted while someone has chometz. Rav Papa says that the מקטיר will also be in violation of this issur. Rashi explains that we are speaking about a circumstance where none of the בני חבורה had chometz so that there was no violation until now, the one who burns the korban on the mizbeiach will be in violation if he has chometz. Why does Rashi need to say that we are speaking where the בני חבורה don't have chometz? It must be that Rashi assumes that if the בני חבורה had chometz so that the issur was already violated by the shechita, the korban would be פסול, therefore the מקטיר would not be in violation. Rashi assumes like the conclusion of the mishna l'melech that on a passul korban, one cannot be in violation and therefore needs to make the case where the korban was not invalidated. The Tzlach later rejects this diyuk, but according to this diyuk, Rashi would hold that the korban becomes invalidate if any of the avoda is done while someone in the chabura or one of the makrivim have chometz.


Amos said...

In the shiur, you also raised the question of a zoreik who owns chametz doing the zrikah after it has been shekhted by a person who owns no chametz and bnei chaburah with no chametz. You presented it as obvious that we could not retroactively say that the person who did the shkhita had committed a lav, since the zoreik at the point of the shkhita was completely unknown to the shokhet and the bnei chabura. Why is that we do not demand that this shokhet and the bnei chaburah make sure to "pick" a zoreik who does not own chametz? The shkhitah and zerikah are part of a connected series of actions; is it so unreasonable to expect some concern about who is involved in the entire chain of events?

Avi Lebowitz said...

i'm not sure that they are given the right to "pick" a zoreik. if that is not within their job description, it would be strange to me that the shochet could be in violation for something that he could never have any control over. when one violates something b'ones, it is always because of a circumstance that would usually not apply, but here it would always be out of the control of the shochet to determine the zoreik so it should not even be a violation b'oneis.

Amos said...

I see. Thanks!