Friday, November 17, 2006

Beitza 21a - bathing/ machlokes BS-BH

1. tosfos says that acc. to Bais Hillel you can only wash your feet but the whole body is assur. Tosfos says a sevara "davar hashaveh lekol nefesh baenan" Where does tosfos get that sevara that the heter of ochel nefesh on yom tov only applies by a davar that is shoveh lekol nefesh?
2.From the begining of the mesechta until the second mishna on amud beis every mishna is a machlokes bais hillel and bais shamai. (the mesachta starts off with the 3 areas where bais shamai is makil. and now you have the 3 time raban gamleil was machmir like bais shammai) what is the shaychus between hilchos yom tov and bais shamai and bais hillel? I think it has to do with what the mishna in chaggiga says that the 1st machlokes in yisroel was on semicha on yom tov and from there to the other machlokesen between bais hillel and bais shamai. since it is from hilchos yom tov that machlokes started thats why you find bais shammai and bais hillel being cholek in many areas of hilchos yom tov .

5 comments:

Avi Lebowitz said...

zvi,
the source for davar hashava lichol nefesh is a gemara in kesubos 7a. Tosafos is not mechadesh the concept, only the application. there is a ramban in shabbos 39b who takes a different approach.
regarding your second point, you don't mean to say that once they began arguing about hilchos yom tov, they continued. i assume you mean that it was almost like a punishment for starting machlokes in hilchos yom tov, than it continued.

Zvi Katz said...

Avi
Skoiach for the mareh makom.
For the 2nd point i did not have a conclusion for the hearo I just had the hearo. But I was thinking more on line that since binyon yom tov was the first machlokes we see that kabbolos the they were mekabal from their rabbiem binyon yom tov was not as clear to them so thats where they continued to have arguements.
Good shabbos

Yossie Schonkopf said...

this reminds me of an earlier discussion this blog had (rav Aryeh)
meaning that we will pasken like beis shamai in the future and yom tov is paralel to the days of mashiach as shabbos is to the next world (maharal in explaining eiruv tavshilin) and here we have the 1st machlokes in y"t. maybe this is a source that we will pasken like beis shamai only afer the times of mashiach
i am being to wild, just having fun...
shkoyach, so why us this the 1st argument? (i think the maharal in derech chaim speaks about this)

Avi Lebowitz said...

tzvi,
at the time i pointed to the gemara in kesubos, i didn't realize that rashi on 22b points to it.

Rabbi Yisroel Gordon said...

Yasher Koach Tzvi-
Facinating heara! Maybe the mesorah about yom tov & especially yom tov shechal b'erev shabbos was weaker because it was less common than daily or weekly mitzvos? It would make for an interesting study to take a look at this gobally. The machlokes about tzaras ervah comes to mind - i imagine that was kind of a rare event.

Is it significant that so many of the debates btw B"H & B"S seem to be about d'rabanans? Is it because people were more careful with the mesorah of d'oraisas?