Kesubos 11a - Ger Kattan

3 points:

1. Rashi writes that if we convert a ger kattan, the geirus is assumed to go into affect immediately and the wine that the child touches will be kosher. Why is it mutar to drink the wine, shouldn't we be concerned that maybe he will object when he gets older? There are 3 possible explanations: 1. Even if he objects, it is not retroactive, rather we consider him a goy only from the time of objection and on (so even if the wine is still around, we can drink it after he objects). 2. Although if he objects he will be a goy retroactively, we assume he will maintain his status as a jew and not object. 3. Although m'doraysa he is a goy retroactively, m'drabonon we consider him a jew until he objects to be meikel for issurei d'rabonon such as stam yeinam. The 3rd approach is clearly the most difficult. The Chasam Sofer rejects the first approach from Tosafos, that the power of z'chiya which is founded on shlichus can work even though he is a goy since through this he will turn into a jew - therefore, when he objects and does not turn into a jew, the entire power of the z'chiya is ruined retroactively. Therefore, the Chasam sofer is matir the wine so long as he as not yet objected based on the 2nd approach.

2. The Tosafos Yeshanim struggles with the gemara that says the ger can object when he is a gadol, yet says that once he is a gadol he cannot object. What exactly is the moment that he should object? Tosafos Yeshanim says that since we can't pinpoint the moment of gadlus, the child must do acts of objection i.e. aveiros, from the day before he is a gadol until a day or 2 after. However, the Tosafos Rid says a tremendous chiddush. The age of "gadol" to object is even before 13, so long as he has da'as to make a decision (let's assume 10 yrs old). But, the cut off point from when he can no longer object is when he is 13. Therefore, from 10 until 13 if he keeps mitzvos it will not ruin his ability to object, but after 13 once he keeps mitzvos he looses the ability to object. R' Moshe (y.d. 1:162) is mechadesh that so long as the child doesn't realize he has the option to object, he can still object even if he is already well into his teens. He proves this from a hagahos ashri who indicates that there is a ger kattan who can do kiddushin (so he must be over 13), yet would still have the ability to object to the geirus (bec. he isn't told he is a ger kattan).

3. Tosafos asks how can there be a girl who is already 12 and entitled to received k'nas for o'nes, yet she would still have the ability to be mocheh. Tosafos says that even if she is a gedola, she still maintains the ability to object until she "acts as a jewish girl". It seems that by a boy who is constantly obligated in mitzvos aseh, would immediately loose his ability to object as soon as he puts on tefillin or does another mitzvah as a gadol. But by a girl it takes more time to see whether she is "acting as a jewish girl" since there are not particular mitvos aseh for her to do, therefore, until we see her "acting as a jewish girl" for some amount of time that would be clear she wants to maintain being jewish, she could be over 12 and fit for k'nas, yet still have the ability to object. But, based on R' Moshe that i mentioned in #2, we can easily have a case where she is 12 yet still is able to object, such as a situation where she was not yet told she is a ger ketana.