the gemara assumes that if after the zika he becomes a sris, then the zika should not require chalitza.
question: in mishna 41a it is clear that if she becomes a wife's sister after the zika, she needs chalitza, and tosfos yom tov and tiferes yisroel explain since the zika cam first. would love an answer for this.
9 comments:
the case on 41a is where he was mekadesh the sister of the shomeres yaveim, but there are other brothers to which the shomeres yaveim has zika. therefore, his kiddushin won't break the zika from the brothers.
a) how do you know there are others?
b) the tosfos y"t seems to say differently
A question from one of my readers is similar:
The Gemora asks: What is a saris-chamah?
Rav Yitzchak bar Yosef said in the name of Rabbi Yochanan: One, who has not experienced a moment of life in a state of fitness.
This comes rather directly from the Mishnah. I would have thought that since the criteria is “not experienced a moment of fitness”, that the determining moment in time would be 9 years and 1 day rather than birth. In other words, if a child below the age of 9 (but after birth) was injured, I would think that that child should be considered a saris-chamah rather than a saris-adam, since he never had a moment of fitness (fitness for bi’ah begins at 9). Why is this not the case?
That notwithstanding, we see that for all of the other issues relating to yibum, we go after the status at the moment of the husband’s death (whether or not there were brothers, what their status is, etc…). If a person is classified as a “saris” at the moment of his brother’s death, why would it matter whether it was caused after birth or congenital? The fact that he has that status at the time of his brother’s death should be the only factor.
r' yossi - the mishna clearly says that the brother who was mekadesh the sister must wait until his brother does chalitzah or yibum. clearly there are other brothers, that is why there is zika despite his kiddushin.
yes, but that brother died!
i think the answer is (my chavrusa) that the chalitza over there was only m'drobonon (see rashba there) and here the gemara is asking that how come the sris is koneh with yibum, also, if the brother in the case of 41a marries the sister - she doesn't need chalitza as tosfos says in 18b, sorry for being short.
r' avrumi,
you raise an interesting question, but what does it have to do with our discussion?
regarding your question, שעת הכשר means a person had potential for children, 9 is the age of actual ביאה and 13 is the age of actual possibility for impregnating a woman, but we aren't talking actual but potentials the old בכח vs בפועל
somehow we are not talking to each other. are you speaking of the mishnah of r' yehuda ben beseira? doesn't he explicitly advise that the brother who was mekadesh, wait until another LIVE brother does chalitzah or yibum?
מת יבם יוציא את אשתו בגט ואשת אחיו בחליצה
ah! now i see your question.
i think that it is mashma from rashi that the chalitza is deoraysa since rashi says that you would even do yibum if not for the fact that yevama is achos gerushaso.
spoke this over with a rebbi,
it must be d'robono proof is from raban gamliel (the ketana the grows up) and from tosfos 18b see there.
what you are saying in rashi, the answer is that overhere its (in 41a) its הותרה, נאסרה, וחזרה והותרה ודוק
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