Monday, January 22, 2007

ashes on the aron kodesh - Tzaar Hashchina

גמרא טז ע"א ולמה נותנין אפר מקלה ע"ג תיבה אמר רבי יהודה בן פזי כלומר עמו אנכי בצרה ריש לקיש אמר בכל צרתם לו צר
הבית הלוי בח"א דרוש ז' מפרש את החילוק בין שני הפסוקים (וכמעט מפורש במכילתא בא שמביא שם) דעמו אנכי בצרה משמע אפילו בצער דיחיד אך לר"ל שלומד מבכל צרתם זהו רק בצערא דציבור ומה שכתוב עמו אנכי וכו' מפרש ר"ל כפשוטו דאיירי שה' יושיע אותו
ולפ"ז מפרש דברי הגמרא במגילה ל"א לגבי דאין מפסיקין בקללות דריש לקיש ביאר שם שהטעם שאין פוסקין בקללות (דתורת כהנים) כיוון שאין אומרים ברכה על הפורענות וביאר שם התוספות דהטעם דהקב"ה בצער ולא ראוי שיהא מתברך והקשה שם הר"ן והרי הדין שכשם שמברכין על הטוב כך על הרע ומדוע שלא יתברך. וע"ז מתרץ הבית הלוי שר"ל לשיטתו שצער השכינה שייך רק ברבים ולא ביחיד וא"כ האי דינא דמברכין על הרע שייך רק ביחיד כשאין צער שכינה.
ע"ש דלא הארכתי לצטט אותו ורק מראה מקום אני לך

9 comments:

Avromi said...

Two questions on todays daf please.

Has anybody seen the following question?

The Gemara on bottom of 13b says that Ein Bein the second set of Ta'aneisim and the third set except for "Masre'in" and closing the stores. The gemara asks from Teiva and the Gemara says "B'farhesya lo Katoni" we are not dealing with public things.
The Braisoh mentioned closing the shops. Isnt that B'Farhesya - a public thing?

Henach

Avromi said...

The Magen Avraham (576) wonders why the trumpets are not blown today.

The Nesiv Chaim answers that since the mitzva is derived from the passuk which states “And when the battle will enter your land,” it emerges that the obligation is only in Eretz Yisroel and not in any other lands.

The Mishna Berura cites this answer and adds from the Pri Megadim that the mitzva in Eretz Yisroel is limited to the times that the Beis Hamikdosh is in existence and Eretz Yisroel is in Klal Yisroel’s control but now, it is not called “our land.” The Ramban in one answer seems to say that the mitzva of sounding the trumpets is only in Eretz Yisroel.

The Minchas Chinuch (331:3) questions this explanation because generally a mitzva which rests on the head of a person (and not the ground) does not get excluded from the fact that the passuk states “your land.”

The minchas chinuch himself lists a few mitzvot similar to eglah arufah, kiddush hachodesh, and semicha that apply only in eretz yisrael. it's surprising he doesn't answer that this mitzvah (chatzotzros) too is similar to the latter. any mitzvah that is tzibbur related applies only in eretz yisrael. thus war, as well as a tannis tzibbur can be only in eretz yisrael, because outside eretz yisrael we have a status of yechidim. eretz yisrael is metzaref the yechidimi into one nation is explained in the zohar - mi keamcha yisrael = goy echad baarets. when are we echad baaeretz.

in conclusion, why doesn't the minchas chinuch understand the mitzva of chatzotzros to be a mitzva which applies only in E"Y?

thank you

Yossie Schonkopf said...

reb avrumi,
why is a store more public then a shul? public means in the middle of the street (the sevara why its so different i'm not sure)

re your 2nd point, i"m not sure. see aslo the netziv i once quoted on sifri in behaaloscha for an original reason

yossie

Avromi said...

Thank you, when i said the daf tonight, i thought like you that a store perhaps is like a shul but then again the closing of the stores are on outside so maybe not. it's hard to say for sure when the sevara is not clear.

thanks

Yossie Schonkopf said...

i'm just thinking, it would fit well if "b'pharhesia" means litterly in the middle of "reshus harabim" and the reason would be because the "t'zaar haschina" is only for the public (like rish lakish acc to the beis haleivi). this would also explain why the "mitzvah" of blowing is on the "tzibur" and therefore only applies (maybe) to erets yisroel (even though we blow even on the earlier sets, but the end shows that it is just a prelude to the “rabim” concept).

Yossie Schonkopf said...

in other words, if it is a public mitzva or private can depend on the machlokes of the psokim acc to the beis halevi.

Yossie Schonkopf said...

one more point, Rashi explains that Rav Chalafta instituted not saying amen "b'gvulin". The ran asked on him if so they should argue the whole year long if the say amen or "baruch shem". I was thinking that rashi will answer that only "b'fahesia" in the middles of the public street do they get a din "tzibur" so strong that they don't answer amen just like the mikdash. (otherwise what will rashi answer???).

as an aside, rav hutner explains why we don't say amen in the mikdash. Reason: amen is a statement of faith and it is incorrect to say i have faith in something i see with my eyes. (i cannot say i have faith that i am seeing a person who is in the same room as me - i know he is there!)

this all is according to rish lakish, but the rule is (rav dessler from the zohar) that in agadata both sides are always right just looking from diferent aspects or angels, so hear too one can say that everyone agrees some tzaar shchina applies to a "yachid" and much more applies to a "tzibur".

Avromi said...

Anonymous said...

Someone in my Shiur (R' Dov Klein)suggested that maybe the difference lies in the fact that "closing the stores" is a "shaiv v'al ta'saseh" (lack of action)and therefore is not considered "b'farhesya".
Any opinions?

Yossie Schonkopf said...

look at rashi 'birchova she ir' he quotes the michna in megillah that when selling the city street the city must use the money for a shul because the street has the kedusha from davening during the fasts. i think he is telling us the whole deal...