Friday, April 27, 2007

הערות במקווה

א) קטפרס פירושו מים היורדים בהר, ויש מ"ח בתוספות לעיל אי הוי חיבור למקוה ולכ"ע לא הוי חיבור להשקה.
ב) הסיבה שקטפרס לא הוי חיבור הוא מפני שלא בטוח שהמים יגיעו למקוה. ולכאורה יש לזה ראיה מזה שטופח ע"מ להטפיח הוי חיבור ומה החילוק בין זה לקטפרס אלא שטופח ע"מ להטפיח אין ספק שהם ביחד כיוון שזה במקום חלק ולא במורד ההר
ג) מסקנה דתוספות הכא הוא שצריכים שיעור דשפורפרת הנוד באופן שהחיבור הוא באמצע הכתל אך אם אין כותל או שהחיבור הוא למעלה מהכותל רק צריך טופח ע"מ להטפיח וכקליפת השום - האם שניהם אותו דבר
reb avi am i right?


Avi Lebowitz said...

r' yossi,
1. yes, it is a mefurash mishna that at least applies to hashaka and acc. to rabbeinu tam even applies to mikvah

2. I don't think there is a sevara in why katafras is not a chibur. The sevara you offer would certainly not explain why we would allow a chibur even through gud asik which works upwards to allow tevillah in the upper one (shitas r' meir). Tosafos 21b says that it is just a halacha l'moshe misinai that katafras is (or isn't) a chibur for mikvah. In terms of determining the difference between katafras and tofeah lehatfiach, the difference is whether there is a slope. Don't view it as just a water connection but rather the 2 pools must be connected and when they are on different levels they are more seperated.
3. Actually the shitah of the r"i is that tofeah l'hatfiach is not related to mikvah (just as nitzok and ketafras which are discussed all in the same mishna are not related). So, when the connection is through the wall you need the hole to be shfoferes hanod and filled up until the diameter so there is a water connection of the depth of klipas hashom at a width of shfoferes hanod (on top of the wall where the connection is wide, klipas hashom is the depth needed for the connection). In the opinion of rabbeinu tam it is not clear how he reconciles klipas hashom with tofeach l'hatfiach (he only works out tofeach l'hatfiach with shfoferes hanod). The final line in tosafos 21b d.h. k'ovya, suggests that on a flat surface it is sufficient to have tofeach l'hatfiach, but when there is a wall seperating you need a greater connection - either a hole in the wall shfoferes hanod filled half way with water or a connection on top with a depth of klipas hashom and width of shfoferes hanod.

Yossie Schonkopf said...

on 2. i was referring to tosfos before where he asks how we compare rebi yehuda and the 3 pools if acc to tosfos the pool specifically speak in a case where the middle pool has 40 seah, he seems to answer (and i think rav elyashiv there understood the same) that since in reb yehuda the water is surely going to fall in then it is better and you don't need the pool to be 40 seah
as for your point on rebi meir, its a very good point, maybe he would hold that ketafras is also a connection?
3. i didnt look at 3 yet