Tuesday, January 23, 2007

Ta'anis 16a - Dirt and Goyim

The gemara gives 2 rationales for placing ash on their heads: 1. we are like ash. 2. to remember the akeida. Acc. to the 1st rationale dirt would work, but not acc. to second.
This seems to contradict rashi in the mishna 15a who says that we use ash rather than dirt bec. it is more degrading than dirt (this explanation is for the 1st rationale). But, the gemara implies that the only advantage of ash is acc. to the rationale of the akeida?
Clearly, rashi learns that even acc. to the 1st rationale ash is preferable bec. it is more degrading, but if you don't have ash, then acc. to 1st rationale use dirt, acc. to 2nd rationale use nothing (Tosafos also does not seem to understand this to be a typical "ika beinayhu").
It seems that rashi goes li'shitaso:
The gemara gives 2 rationales for going to the cemetery: 1. we are like the dead. 2. we beseech the dead to pray for us. According to the 1st rationale we can go to a non-jewish cemetery, but acc. to 2nd rationale it must be a jewish cemetery (and preferable tzadikim!). Rashi 16a d.h. kivrei, implies that acc. to everyone, a jewish cemetery is preferable. Rashi understands that the "ika beinayhu" of the non-jewish cemetery is only if there is no Jewish cemetery, similar to the "ika beinayhu" of the dirt is only if there is no ash.
The rashash seems to indicate this entire vort in a few words.

3 comments:

Rabbi Yisroel Gordon said...

Beyond the reason given by Rashi, there may be another reason why ash is more preferable than dirt. When Avraham said, "I am dirt and ash" the Midrash explains that Avraham was saying that he should have been ash in the oven of Nimrod and dirt in the battle with the four kings. Clearly then, the two are not interchangeable - each has its own meaning. If the Gemorah says that we put on ash in a statement that we are like ash, presumably there is something specific about ash here, as opposed to dirt. Maybe we are saying that without water we will be reduced to ash?

Zvi Katz said...

The Keren ohra says what you said by afar that even acc. to the m"d of afar efer is better.
Also the keren orah does not like that which tosfos says to burn atzmos of a adom and he says a ayil is better.

Yossie Schonkopf said...

the yaavets in the back also asks strongly on tosfos. see there.