Thursday, November 16, 2006

Beitza 20b - Nedarim and Nedavos

The gemara asks, acc. to opinion that nedarim and nedavos can't be brought on yom tov, what would be if one violated shechita, would you sprinkle the blood. The gemara says that if the meat is around all agree that you can sprinkle the blood (and violate a shevus of zrika - see pesachim 65b) in order to eat the meat on yom tov (ochel nefesh pushes off the shevus of zrika).
R' Yisroel Gordon raised an interesting question. The gemara implies "avar vishachat" that he intentionally violated the prohibition to shecht the korban, so the meat should be assur m'drabonon to eat just like one who cooks on shabbos b'mazid the food is assur (beitza 17b!). If it is assur to eat the meat there is no longer a heter to do the zrika (acc. to rava)? He suggested that since there is a mitzvah to eat kodshim, we can apply mitzvos la'av l'eihanos nitnu to allow eating the korban. To me it seems that this would only work with the chiddush of r' moshe (o.c. 1:126:3) that we are magdir even the issur d'rabonon of ma'aseh shabbos as an issur hana'a so that the heter of mitzvos la'av leihanos nitnu would apply. If it would be a regular kenas derabonon not to eat it, there wouldn't be a heter of mitzvos la'av leihanos nitnu.
I couldn't find anyone else (i.e. tzlach, pnei yehoshua, sfas emes) address the question.

6 comments:

Avromi said...

reb shlomo zalman in minchas shlomo says that if it would be bemeizid like the loshon is mashma, it should be ussur because of maaseh yom tov.
he does quote a kehilas yaakov which im not sure what he says yet. i cant find it.

Avi Lebowitz said...

i looked for the teshuva you mentioned from minchas shlomo. i was only able to find in chelek 1 teshuva 10 footnote 7 a discussion about why the meat is not muktzah. this issue is already discussed at length by the tzlach and mitzpah eisan (printed in the back of the gemara). but i still have not found the question about the meat being assur bec. of ma'aseh shabbos.

Avromi said...

he has a sefer on beitza - its not in the teshuvos one

Yossie Schonkopf said...

maybe: you cannot make hekdesh asur an isur cheftza because it doen't belong to you. a person may not make asur what is not his.

Yossie Schonkopf said...

also, there is no shvus in the mikdash, maybe this included.

Avromi said...

the pnei yehoshua asks on the gem that there shouldnt be shvus bmikdash bichlal so why should the zrika be assur? shita says that here is different since he did an aveira.