Beis Shamai and BH argue about whether an olas ri'iya can be brought on yom tov. All agree that if it would be "zeman kavua", it can be brought. The argument is, do we consider it zeman kavua, since it can be brought on chol hamoed and does not need to be brought on Yom Tov. Beis Hillel says, that since there is a finite time that it can be brought, as it cannot be brought after chag, it is called zeman kavua. Simply speaking this could mean that since the zeman for the korban is the duration of the chag, it is called zeman kavua. However, Rashi is apparently bothered by this idea, the fact that it can only be brought for the duration of the chag is not a justification for bringing it on yom tov (since it can be done on chal hamoed).
Rashi says 20b (and also 19a) that we are concerned he will be negligent or o'nes and not bring it on chol hamoed. Why is that a rationale to push off yom tov? It seems that Rashi defines "zeman kavua" as a korban that if not done on yom tov, has a chance of being lost not done at all. Only karbonos whose opportunity will not expire cannot be done on yom tov. But since there is a chance of negligence on chal hamoed and a concern that it will be missed entirely, we consider it zeman kavua to push off yom tov. It should follow from this that any korban who's time is limited and expires, is considered zeman kavua and can be brought on yom tov. Acc. to Rashi's approach it would seem that the fact that the zeman is the entire chag, is merely coincidental, but even if the zeman would be 2 weeks, so long as there is a limited time that it can be brought bec. of an expiration on the zeman, there is a chance that if we don't allow it to be brought on yom tov it may not be done ever, it is considered zeman kavua and could be brought on yom tov!
7 comments:
i think there is a discussion acc to beis shamai what if were holding the last day y"t and he didnt bring a kurban reiya yet?
also acc to b"h if he has nedarim on the last day y"t and if he doesn't bring the kurban he will transgress baal teacher. I didnt have time to think it out, but i think these can relate to your subject.
Rav Elchonon comments on your Rashi asking if so what is the heter to do this on Yom Tov and he states that it part of the broad heter of ochel nefesh which is hutra and not dechuya. If there is a safek that there will be an ones so it is called tzorech hayom.
He also differentiates between this sofek l'haba and by tumtum that is a safek leshovar and therefore cant carry the lulav.
Sefer Tal Yisroel also talks about the Rashi, but I don't have here.
i am not sure what this has to do with ochel nefesh. we are speaking about an olas ri'iya where there is no ochel nefesh (we are also in the tana kamma, that nedarim and nedavos are assur bec. they are from shulchan gavoha and not considered ochel nefesh). the issue is just an issue of whether the o'nes would make it considered zeman kavua. perhaps r' elchonon extends this concept to ochel nefesh (that anything which if not done today may be lost completely is considered a need of today), but that is definitely not the issue in the gemara and rashi.
i hear your point but look at reb elchonon ois 53 where he clearly states that rashi is differentiating between nedorim unedovos and shalmei chagiga that the chagiga even though it has tashlumin nonetheless we are concerned that perhaps he will have an ones and not bring.
is he referring to a different rashi?
avrumi,
shkoyach! i just took a look at r' elchonon. he must be refering to the same rashi. it is true that rashi's statement has to apply to chagiga as well, as rashi states explicitly on 19a (d.h. avul). however, r' elchonon's explanation does not seem to be sufficient bec. it only applies to chagiga which has in it ochel nefesh, but would not work by olas ri'iya which is the context of the gemara 20b. perhaps his explanation would work for beis shamai that you can't bring olas r'iya but you can still bring a chagiga. Acc. to beis shamai the heter can be based on ochel nefesh.
when i said the daf tonite, i was thinking that he might be referring to beis shammai - his statement in the beginning is a bit strange seemingly - nedorim and nedovos not because it can be brought tomorrow and not shalmei simcha even though it has tashlumin all seven etc.
like there is such a gemora that explicitly makes that distinction
Even though the Reb Elchonon is on daf chaf, i think hes referring to the rashi on 19 in the mishna where he is discussing shalmei chagiga
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