הרמ"א סובר דנוסח "בהדי עירובא וכו" מעכב ולדידיה חוזר ומברך ומניח, וכבר תמהו הנושאי כלים מנין לו העיכוב? ויותר צ"ע (שמעתי להקשות) דכל הנוסח לא מפורש בגמרא ומנין כל זה?
וחשבתי שאולי מקורו מהגמ' טז ע"ב
אמר רב הונא ערובי תבשילין צריכין דעת. פשיטא דעת מניח וכו' וברש"י שם שידעו שלשם כך נעשו ורב הונא לא פירש וכו'וכבר מקשים האחרונים מה הנידון הרי זכין לאדם שלא בפניו. אך אולי כוונת רב הונא כרמ"א שצריך דעת מפורשת ששם העירוב לבשל ולאפות וכדו' וא"כ יש הו"א שגם צריך דעת מי שהניחו בשבילו. (ומחשבה תמיד צריכה דיבור חוץ מקדשים שהיא אולי מ"ח רש"י ותוס'
what do you think?
עוד הערה: מי של"צ לבשל האם יש עליו מצוות עירוב? ולראשונים לקמן שגם לאדלוקי שרגא צריך א"כ יצטרך אך לראשונים שחולקים מאי? ויש לי קצת לדייק מהמשנה שהתחילה דינה מדין שלא יבשל בתחילה לשבת אך אם הותיר מיו"ט יאכל, ואם הוי חיוב מדוע לא התחילה לומר שחייב אדם בעירוב. ואם ניחות לדא, א"כ יהיה קשה על הראשונים שמצריכים עירוב כדי לאדלוקי שרגא.
7 comments:
i agree that the gemara seems that one needs da'as when they leave an eiruv that it should be for the purpose of eiruv. but i am not convinced that this would automatically require an amira.
my point it that i don't think rav hunas daying was specific to doing an eiruv for other people, instead he is saying you need daas. if so, what is adding to the halacha of eiruv that the mishna says? and if you agree that you specifically need daas then it follows that you have to say because we always require words
I like your diyuk from the mishnah. The issue of somebody not planning on cooking seems to be dependant on the machlokes Rava (you would still need one to remind you not to finish everything before shabbos) and Rav Ashi (you would not need one because you need no reminder of the kavod yom tov if you aren't cooking. Practically, Rav Moshe V:20:26 says that it is best to leave something over to do in order to require an eruv tavshilin. See also Moadim U'zmanim VII:122 where he thinks that you should always make an eruv because the primary purpose is l'kavod shabbos.
I think that even acc. to rava that it is a kavod shabbos issue, one would not have to make an eiruv if he does not plan on cooking. Chazal were afraid that if we allow cooking on yom tov for shabbos, one is going to cook all their food on yom tov and use it on yom tov itself. therefore, they assur cooking on yom tov for shabbos, thereby requiring you to cook for shabbos before yom tov so that the food will be designated for shabbos (and there is no longer a kavod shabbos concern). however, they were leninent that if one designates some food for shabbos from before yom tov i.e. eiruv, that will serve as a reminder not to use up all the food for shabbos.
Thanks to the brothers, very interesting. does rav moshe explain himself?
I happen to agree with avi on this and i will tell you why. we had a hard time understanding rava, if we are worried about shabbos, why not let you cook, if anything we should let you cook to get food for shabbos. also, acc to rava we should prohibit any cooking for y"t as well?
i think the answer is that we know you will have food for shabbos, we worry that you will finish the sweet-breads and end up with an omlet for shabbos, therefor if we don't let you cook for shabbos, you will be forced to save some of the good y"t food for shabbos. based on this, if you aren't going to cook for whatever reason, we know that you will leave over food for shabbos and there is no concern.
along the lines of my diyuk in rav huna can be found in toldos yaakov
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